A Conversation Between A True Bible-Believing Christian And A Heavily Indoctrinated Roman Catholic

This dialog is a composite of many actual conversations that I, as a bible-believing Christian, have had with Catholics in Facebook discussion forums. Very often, Catholics will reply with some very harsh statements and crude language. What I have included here omits the truly nasty comments I have received. I must admit that not every professing Christian in these forums is kind-hearted in their comments to Catholics.
 
True Christian: Did you know that your Church is deceiving their members on many religious teachings and practices?
 
Roman Catholic: That’s just your opinion. The Catholic Church is the one true Church started by Jesus in 33 AD.
 
True Christian: Actually, the true Church was started by Jesus but it was not the Catholic Church. It was the Church described in the New Testament which was very different in their teachings and practices from the Catholic Church.
 
Roman Catholic: No. We have a line of 266 popes going back to the first pope, the apostle Peter.
 
True Christian: Actually, Peter was never a pope. He never had that title nor did he have a role as leader over the entire Church. There were other leaders, referred to as bishops, who oversaw local churches in other regions. And contrary to Catholic claims, the Catholic Church did not exist during the first century. It evolved over the course of several centuries, as a mixture of Christianity and pagan religions.
 
Roman Catholic: I don’t believe that. You’re just a heretic like Luther. Your religion didn’t exist until 500 years ago. We’re the one true holy and apostolic Catholic Church!
 
True Christian: Actually, if you take the time to study the Bible, especially the New Testament, you will see that most of Catholicism’s teachings cannot be found in the Bible.
 
Roman Catholic: Don’t tell me that our teachings are not in the Bible. We have the Magisterium and other spirit filled leaders and theologians who are much more qualified than you or your sect leader to interpret the Bible. Plus we have the writings of the Church Fathers and “sacred traditions” to refer to.
 
True Christian: But much of the Catholic Church teachings are based upon Scriptures taken in isolation or out of context or derived from unverifiable outside sources like those “sacred traditions” you mentioned.
 
Roman Catholic: You’re just a heretic, one of 40,000 Protestant denominations. We’re the one true holy and apostolic Catholic Church!
 
True Christian: Actually, I am going by what the Bible teaches and in there, there is no mention of many Catholic Church inventions such as scapulars, miraculous medals, votive candles, indulgences, purgatory, rosary beads, mass cards, statues of saints, sacrifice of the mass, eucharists, sacred heart pictures, Marian shrines, stations of the cross, the immaculate conception, the assumption of Mary, popes, cardinals, monks, Catholic priests, nuns, eucharistic ministers, last rites, masses for the dead, veneration of relics or any of the Catholic holy days of obligation.
 
Roman Catholic: You’re just a heretic. All non-Catholic churches are man-made. We’re the one true holy and apostolic Catholic Church!
 
True Christian: Actually, if you examine the New Testament, and look at the ordinances and practices of the early Church as described in there, you will see that what is being described is most definitely NOT the Catholic Church.
 
Roman Catholic: I disagree. We gave you the Bible. Only our clergy can properly interpret the Bible. They tell us what the Bible means. We need to trust them otherwise we will end up like the Protestants with 40,000 different sects.
 
True Christian: Actually, GOD gave HIS CHURCH the Bible, through Moses, the prophets and the apostles. And it is cults that tell their followers to rely on the cult leaders to interpret the Bible for the cult members.
 
Roman Catholic: But you didn’t have a Bible until we compiled it.
 
True Christian: Actually, the early Church had the Old Testament Scriptures and the letters to the churches and the 4 gospels before the first century ended. They were not waiting around for the Catholic Church to print a Bible centuries later.
 
Roman Catholic: But we have Christ in the Eucharist. Your sect does not.
 
True Christian: Actually, Jesus is ruling and reigning over the TRUE Church from heaven and He does that through the Holy Spirit indwelling true twice-born believers, those who have received Christ by the “new birth” referred to by Jesus in John chapter 3.
 
Roman Catholic: As Catholics, we receive Jesus every time we receive the host during the sacrifice of the mass.
 
True Christian: Believing in transubstantiation – the idea that each Catholic eucharist contains the entire body, blood, soul and divinity of the Lord Jesus Christ doesn’t mean it’s true. Your Church has taken the words of Christ in John chapter 6 literally, when they were meant figuratively as Jesus pointed out in John 6:63.
 
Roman Catholic: That’s just your opinion. You’re just like the people who walked away from Jesus when He said we must eat His body and drink His blood.
 
True Christian: Actually Catholics are like those people who walked away from Jesus because, like the people who walked away, Catholics believe that Jesus was speaking literally. But Catholics think they are better than the ones who walked away from Jesus because Catholics accept the idea that Jesus was promoting cannibalism, though they will never call it cannibalism.
 
Roman Catholic: Like I said before, your just another Protestant heretic who abandoned the one true Church.
 
True Christian: It is an honor to be called a heretic when sharing biblical truth with lost, hell-bound Catholics.
 
Roman Catholic: I am NOT hell-bound! I may have to spend some time in Purgatory but as long as I don’t die in a state of mortal sin, my church says I don’t have to worry about Hell.
 
True Christian: Sadly for you, there is no such place as Purgatory, regardless of how your church tries to find evidence for it in 2 Maccabees or elsewhere. Those who die in their sins, any sins, without having been truly born-again, will spend eternity in Hell.
 
Roman Catholic: Well that’s good to hear, since I was born again at baptism as an infant when the priest baptized me.
 
True Christian: Sorry, but that is not true. Being born again involves a supernatural act of God apart from any Catholic priest and apart from any water baptism ceremony. It is the event that turns a lost sinner into a new creature in Christ, when they repent and believe the Gospel of Christ… salvation by faith alone in the merits of Christ alone.
 
Roman Catholic: But salvation is not by faith alone. Works are necessary as the Bible says in James chapter 2 that faith without works is dead.
 
True Christian: If you read James chapter 2 carefully, you will see that works are the FRUIT of salvation, not the cause of it, when James says “I will shew thee my faith by my works” in verse 18.
 
Roman Catholic: I refuse to believe that. The Catholic Church has the Treasury Of Merit, intercession of Mary, intercession of the saints and masses for the dead that can help us get into heaven, so salvation by faith alone cannot be right.
 
True Christian: The Bible makes no mention of any soul-saving power in those things you just listed. On the other hand, the Bible clearly states that salvation is by the blood of the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world and by His sacrificial blood alone!
 
Roman Catholic: We Catholics don’t believe that. We believe that Christ’s death only makes it possible for people to be saved. They still have to be baptized, participate in the sacraments and cooperate with God.
 
True Christian: Your false beliefs won’t change truth. They won’t change reality. Christ’s atoning death at Calvary was sufficient payment for sin and the ONLY acceptable payment – to God – for sin, for all those sinners who will ever believe in Christ and His merits ALONE for their salvation.
 
Roman Catholic: That’s just Protestant heresy. You’re nothing more than a child of the devil!
 
True Christian: Well then, I am in good company. Jesus Himself said: “It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?” Matthew 10:25
 
— RM Kane
 

Dialog About A Modern Church Service

Modern Pastor: So now that you have visited our church a few times, what do you think of it?

Church Visitor: I love the people here, its just that…
 
Modern Pastor: What? What is it? Something about our church you don’t like?
Church Visitor: Well, I am not a big fan of your modern Bible version.
 
Modern Pastor: What’s wrong with that? It’s so easy to read and understand.
Church Visitor: It may be easy to read and understand but it is based on corrupt Greek manuscripts that seriously affect the meaning of many important doctrines.
 
Modern Pastor: What else don’t you like about our church?
Church Visitor: Well, I could do without your dumbed down worship songs and super loud rock band.
 
Modern Pastor: But our songs are so easy to remember and we want to attract young people who like that kind of music. And when it is nice and loud people don’t get embarrassed when they can’t hold a tune since nobody is able to hear them and they can’t even hear themselves.
Church Visitor: But weekly church meetings are for BELIEVERS to fellowship together in song, bible teaching, prayer and even to break bread (a real meal) together, not to see how many unsaved people can be attracted to a meeting hall with a rock band – especially people who don’t want to have Christ-centered meetings anyway.
 
Modern Pastor: Is there anything else you have a problem with here?
Church Visitor: Yes there is, and it’s a very important issue. Your “love gospel” is not even 50% right. You never mention Hell, the holiness of God, His hatred of sin or His anger towards the wicked.
 
Modern Pastor: Well we don’t want to turn off anyone. We let God worry about those things. Our focus is on unity. Doctrine only causes division.
Church Visitor: Doctrine is what separates the wheat from the chaff.
 

The Meaninglessness Of Ambiguity

A Conversation About What A Church Bases Its Beliefs Upon

 
Church visitor: Sir, could you please tell me what your church bases its beliefs on?
Pastor: We base our beliefs on the Bible in its entirety and on the Bible alone.
 
Church visitor: But that tells me almost nothing.

Pastor: Why do you say that?
 
Church visitor: Because such as statement is so ambiguous as to be meaningless.

Pastor: Oh Really? I’ll have you know that not all churches base their beliefs on the Bible alone.
 
Church visitor: True. However, many churches with widely varying doctrines and practices make the same “Bible-only” claim. In addition, many cults also proclaim they base their beliefs on the Bible alone.

Pastor: So, what should our church be basing its beliefs on if not the Bible alone?
 
Church visitor: Have you ever heard of creeds or confessions?

Pastor: Yes, of course. There’s the Apostle’s Creed and the Westminster Confession of Faith.
 
Church visitor: Correct. And there are many other creeds and confessions such as the 1689 London Baptist Confession, the Three Forms of Unity of the Reformed Church, the Belgic Confession, the 39 Articles of the Church of England, Keach’s Catechism, the Shorter Catechism of the Presbyterian Church, the Larger Catechism Of the Presbyterian Church, the Five Articles of the Remonstrants, the Heidelberg Catechism, the Nicene Creed and the Waldensian Confessions of Faith, to name a few (OK, I named more than a few).

Pastor: So what? Weren’t all those documents created simply because men were not satisfied with sticking with God’s Word alone?
 
Church visitor: No. On the contrary. Those documents were developed as safeguards against error and as a way of insuring that the correct Biblical interpretation of many Bible doctrines was taught and adhered to by members of various churches.

Pastor: Well I believe the Bible is sufficient in and of itself for me.
 
Church visitor: But that line of thinking is the very reason why so many churches are way off base nowadays, regarding even the most important and fundamental of all Christian doctrines.

Pastor: Can you give me an example?
 
Church visitor: Why certainly. Consider the example of the depravity of unsaved man. The Bible teaches – and many confessions reaffirm the fact – that unregenerated men are totally incapable of reaching out to Christ, the REAL Christ for salvation. Meaning that to tell people to “accept Christ” in order to become saved is like telling a rock to roll over and expecting it to do so.

Pastor: That’s just your opinion. In my church we teach that sinners need to accept Christ in order to be saved and that’s in the Bible.
 
Church visitor: You may think it’s in the Bible but it really is not. And that is not just my opinion but also the opinion of the many highly respected Bible teachers, preachers and scholars of the past. And it is the opinion of many studious Bible teachers, who familiarized themselves with the Creeds and Confessions and the scholarly writings of many great theologians of days gone by, and found that those documents are in fact, in line with Scripture and are in fact, representative of the CORRECT interpretation of Scripture on so many doctrines that are misunderstood in modern Christendom.

Pastor: It sounds like I better start doing my homework and checking out those creeds and confessions.
 
Church visitor: Yes, that would be a very good idea. The things you uncover in such an investigation may surprise you, more that you may realize.
Pastor: I guess the Bible school I went to left a lot of important things out of their curriculum.
 
Church visitor: I would not be surprised if that was the case.
 

Discussion On What Is Marriage

Two brothers: Good morning. We want to apply for a marriage license.
 
Marriage clerk: Names?
 
Two brothers: Tim and Jim Jones.
 
Marriage clerk: Jones?? Are you related?? I see a resemblance.
 
Two brothers: Yes, we’re brothers.
 
Marriage clerk: Brothers? You can’t get married.
 
Two brothers: Why not? Aren’t you giving marriage licenses to same gender couples?
 
Marriage clerk: Yes, thousands. But we haven’t had any siblings. That’s incest!
 
Two brothers: Incest? No, we are not gay.
 
Marriage clerk: Not gay? Then why do you want to get married?
 
Two brothers: For the financial benefits, of course. And we do love each other. Besides, we don’t have any other prospects.
 
Marriage clerk: But we’re issuing marriage licenses to gay and lesbian couples who’ve been denied equal protection under the law. If you are not gay, you can get married to a woman.
 
Two brothers: Wait a minute. A gay man has the same right to marry a woman as I have. But just because I’m straight doesn’t mean I want to marry a woman. I want to marry Jim. And I want to marry Tim, Are you going to discriminate against us just because we are not gay?
 
Marriage clerk: All right, all right. I’ll give you your license… Next.
 
Four Bisexual perverts: Hi. We are here to get married.
 
Marriage clerk: Names?
 
Four Bisexual perverts: John Smith, Jane James, Robert Green, and Isabella Rodan.
 
Marriage clerk: Who wants to marry whom?
 
Four Bisexual perverts: We all want to marry each other.
 
Marriage clerk: But there are four of you!
 
Four Bisexual perverts: That’s right. You see, we’re all bisexual. I love Jane and Robert, Jane loves me and Isabella, Isabella loves Robert and Jane, and Robert loves Isabella and me. All of us getting married together is the only way that we can express our sexual preferences in a marital relationship.”
 
Marriage clerk: But we’ve only been granting licenses to gay and lesbian couples.
 
Four Bisexual perverts: So you’re discriminating against bisexuals!
 
Marriage clerk: No, it’s just that, well, the traditional idea of marriage is that it’s just for couples.
 
Four Bisexual perverts: Since when are you standing on tradition?
 
Marriage clerk: Well, I mean, you have to draw the line somewhere.
 
Four Bisexual perverts: Who says? There’s no logical reason to limit marriage to couples. The more the better. Besides, we demand our rights! The mayor says the constitution guarantees equal protection under the law. Give us a marriage license!
 
Marriage clerk: All right, all right… Next.
 
Dual-personality kook: Hello, I’d like a marriage license.
 
Marriage clerk: In what names?
 
Dual-personality kook: David Deets.
 
Marriage clerk: And the other man?
 
Dual-personality kook: That’s all. I want to marry myself.
 
Marriage clerk: Marry yourself? What do you mean?
 
Dual-personality kook: Well, my psychiatrist says I have a dual personality, so I want to marry the two together. Maybe I can file a joint income-tax return.
 
Marriage clerk: That does it!? I quit! You people are making a mockery of marriage!
 
“Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!”  [Isaiah 5:20]
 

A Conversation With Reverend Billy-Bob

Reverend Billy Bob: Hi. My name is Reverend Billy Bob.

Church Visitor: Hi. My name is Joe. Why do you refer to yourself as “reverend”?

Reverend Billy Bob: Well, that’s just a title we pastors like to apply to ourselves so we get some respect and so people know we’re in charge.

Church Visitor: Oh, I see. As far as I know, in the entire Bible, the only “being” referred to as reverend is God: “He sent redemption unto his people: he hath commanded his covenant for ever: holy and reverend is his name.” [Psalm 111:9]

Reverend Billy Bob: Uh, well, uh, that does not mean people can’t call me Reverend Billy Bob? Does the Bible say people can’t call me Reverend Billy Bob?

Church Visitor: No, it does not specifically say that. However, the bible does warn us that we will get into BIG trouble with God if we start doing things that God does not specifically tell us to do, especially elevating men to the point of attaching labels and attributes to them that should only be applied to God Almighty.

Reverend Billy Bob: Well I do run this church, ya know.

Church Visitor: Maybe so, but Jesus Christ runs the true church by the working of his Holy Spirit in the hearts of true believers.  And a true leader in a church knows that he is responsible for leading by example…. and humility is one of the most important characteristics of a church leader as John The Baptist once pointed out in John 3:30 when he said of Christ “He must increase, but I must decrease.”

Reverend Billy Bob: Right, but John The Baptist was not the pastor of a church.

Church Visitor: He was definitely not the leader of your kind of “pastor-centered” church, but he did all the things a true church leader should do.  He preached, he made disciples, he baptized and he led by his example.

Reverend Billy Bob: Well I do all that.

Church Visitor: Oh really? Is your example of leadership based on Luke 14:11, where Jesus said: “For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.”?  Or are you running the whole “show” every Sunday?  Based on a percentage of the time your congregation meets on Sundays, how much time does the average member spend using their gifts versus how much time do you spend getting all the attention up front?

Reverend Billy Bob: I don’t have to answer that… because I run this place.

Church Visitor: Only as long as God lets you.

SEE ALSO: Reverend Who?