A Lengthy & Heated Dialog About Free-Willism

Published January 22, 2017

A Lengthy & Heated Dialog About Free-Willism

On The “Predestination Or Freewill?” Facebook Discussion Forum

RM Kane shared Arun Thamizhvanan‘s post.
February 26
I have been reading many posts and quotations today in the group “Gleaning from the Puritans”. I find it is refreshing – and it helps me cope with the onslaught of spiritually retarded teachings of so many of our modern preachers and teachers. It can help a Christian to unlearn and guard against the heresies of our day being preached from so many pulpits.
‎Arun Thamizhvanan‎ to Gleaning from the Puritans
February 22

Comments

David Stevens “A slight and passing taste” is enough for anyone to be saved and be loyal to Him.

· February 27 at 1:51am

RM Kane David, sorry to break the news to you but in my OP I am referring to the kind of heresies that pastors like you promote and defend, especially the man-centered synergistic false free-will gospel. Perhaps if YOU would read more of the writings of the Puritans instead of the heretical stuff prescribed to by your denomination, you too could unlearn some heresy. And I say this with a deep concern for Biblical truth and for those exposed to your teaching and preaching. The very reason that creeds and catechisms were put together was to combat heretical teachings and teachers like you who were leading believers astray with their arminian (and other) heresies.

· February 27 at 3:48pm

David Stevens How about if I just keep on reading my Bible as a source of inspiration to live a Godly life that God wants and we’ll never mind the puritan pureists?

· February 27 at 5:35pm

David Stevens BTW my denomination has nothing to do with my beliefs.
I’ve met the Master and I know Him!

· February 27 at 5:37pm

RM Kane
RM Kane David, you’re not alone in your delusion. 🙂 All the cults say that. 🙂 And how you can say you’ve met the Master and yet call Him a liar, is hard for me to believe, unless as “the Master” you are referring to the man in your mirror… the person who procured (by your choice) and maintains (by your efforts) your brand of salvation.

· February 27 at 5:42pm

David Stevens
David Stevens I have the Holy Ghost, sir.
A “cult” theologically speaking is a religion that denies the Deity of Christ.
By the way, wouldn’t you agree that if a man finds inspiration from reading his Bible to live a Godly life an acceptable thing?

· February 27 at 7:02pm · Edited
RM Kane
RM Kane David, A cult has multiple theological meanings, of which a common denominator is they preach a false man-centered gospel.

· February 28 at 12:22am

RM Kane
RM Kane David, as for this question: >>wouldn’t you agree that if a man finds inspiration from reading his Bible to live a Godly life an acceptable thing?<< A spiritual deadman reading a Bible neither pleases nor impresses God. The view that it does, is akin to a murderer standing before a judge and saying “well your honor, I know I ran over your son on the side of the road recently but I pay all my parking tickets, pay my taxes and am never late to work”. Living a true godly life is impossible without the Spirit of God. Thinking that you are living a godly life without the Spirit dwelling in you is nothing short of pharisaism. · February 28 at 12:31am

RM Kane
RM Kane David, as for having the Holy Ghost, what makes you think you do? The Spirit in me says that the spirit in you is a liar, a very cunning liar or a self-deceived liar, one who denies the sovereignty of God and the efficacy of Christ’s atonement, one who preaches the sovereignty of man in salvation. Not every spirit that sounds good is good… For example:
16 And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:
17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.
18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.

· February 28 at 12:46am

Hide 17 Replies
Galdy Desroches
Galdy Desroches Whao
Really
Come on brother
“”The spirit in me says that the spirit in you is a liar””
DONT YOU THINK THAT STATEMENT IS A BIT TOO STRONG?
For you to say:
“THE SPIRIT IN ME SAYS”
You need to be way more than CERTAIN before you say such thing brother. Otherwise if it happen that you were wrong YOU WOULD MAKE THE HS A LIAR.
And you dont want to be in that position brother.

· February 28 at 3:37am

RM Kane
RM Kane Galdy, David, I am judging via “righteous judgment”. My yardstick is the Word of God, comparing scripture WITH scripture as led by the Holy Spirit and as confirmed by a multitude of counselors, in whom is much safety. Those who deny God’s sovereignty in salvation are calling God a liar. So who is the liar? God or the one saying that God needs man’s cooperation in salvation? Is that complicated? At some point in discussing doctrine, a true believer needs to take a stand and draw a line in the sand. I am doing that with David as well as with you. Do not call yourselves Christians if you are going to deny the truth of the Gospel: that salvation is of the Lord and that none seeketh after God and that God has to remove the heart of stone and implant the heart of flesh in order to effect the new birth. And then and only then does the dead sinner come to life and seek after God. All your out-of-context bible verses you use as justification for your man-centered gospel are just vain attempts to usurp God’s authority and His right to save whom He wills when He wills. You should be ashamed of what you are doing, and yet you are not. Like Saul of Tarsus, you keep on crusading against those who present the true Gospel of salvation by grace alone.

· February 28 at 2:24pm · Edited
Galdy Desroches
Galdy Desroches BROTHER RM KANE
-LED BY THE HS——-OK
-Confirmed by a multitude of counselors—–NOT SO OK
btw you dont mind if i ask you WHO are those TRUSTWORTHY COUNSELORS?
2- Can you name JUST one person in this group WHO DENIES GOD’s SOVEREIGNTY IN SALVATION?
3-Name just one person that say God needs man’s cooperation in salvation?
4-Name one person in this group or better yet FIND A COMMENT FROM THAT PERSON and copy and paste it so we can see where that person says SALVATION IS NOT OF THE LORD?
5-Dont forget to compare and contrast for me these 2 verses
-NO MEN SEEK GOD
vs
-IF YOU SEEK ME WITH ALL YOUR HEART YOU WILL FIND ME
6-Dont you think that the HEART OF THE SINNER has been changed AFTER THEY HEAR AND RECEIVE AND BELIEVE THE WORD OF GOD as Jesus said
THOSE WHO HEAR AND BELIEVE PASSED FROM DEATH UNTO LIFE BECAUSE MY WORD IS SPIRIT AND LIFE?
Man-centered gospel YESSSSS
CENTERED ON THE MAN JESUS.
Do you have a problem with that?
7-DO ME A FAVOR
Name one person in this group you think is PRESENTING THE TRUE GOSPEL OF SALVATION BY GRACE ALONE.
Thank you brother and YES
MAY GOD BLESS YOU

· February 28 at 7:45pm

RM Kane
RM Kane Galdy, if you don’t mind, I will just answer question 7. Those in this group who understand and preach the true gospel are those who are not attributing their salvation to some choice or decision they made, some prayer they prayed, etc. They are attributing their salvation to a sovereign choice by God Almighty based solely upon God’s good pleasure, not upon some act or action of the sinner. So where does that leave you?

· March 1 at 12:15am

Galdy Desroches
Galdy Desroches WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO UNDERSTAND THAT GODS “GOOD PLEASURE” IS FOR EVERY MAN EVERY WHERE TO REPENT AND BE SAVED (Act 17)
Comment on this verse for me brother Kane
Act 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now COMMANDETH ALL MEN EVERY WHERE TO REPENT:

· March 1 at 1:16am

RM Kane
RM Kane Galdy, I would not speak for God if I were you, especially regarding what His good pleasure is. Your view of God’s good pleasure is sinful mankind’s view of “fairness”. The real God does not try to fit his plans into our unregenerated idea of fairness.

· March 1 at 11:30am

Galdy Desroches
Galdy Desroches Do you understand what GODS GOOD PLEASURE IS?
Define it for me in YOUR OWN WORD.
For ONCE use your OWN WORD and i am CONVINCED you will see the difference between your view and the view of your MULTITUDE OF COUNSELORS.
Dare to do that brother
WHAT IS GODS GOOD PLEASURE?
Do not google it

· March 1 at 11:39am

RM Kane
RM Kane Galdy, I’m sorry but your question is too vague for me to answer. So I will answer this question: What is God’s good pleasure regarding His elective plan of salvation:
It is to save some sinners in order to display his mercy and grace and to punish other sinners to display his justice and wrath. God has explained this to us in Romans chapter 9 which is why I am even able to answer this question with any certainty.

· March 1 at 6:08pm

Galdy Desroches
Galdy Desroches FIRST OF ALL THE ONLY CONDITION TO BE ELECTED AS A SAVED SINNER IS “FAITH” NOT “SELECTION”
SECOND OF ALL YOU SAID
THE ELECTIVE PLAN OF SALVATION IS TO SAVE “SOME” SINNERS, I DONT KNOW WHERE YOU FIND THAT WORD “SOME” IN THE BIBLE, MAYBE ANOTHER INVENTION OF DR JAMES WHITE
THE BIBLE SAID
GOD WANTS “EVERY” MAN
“EVERYWHERE” TO REPENT
In other words
GOD WANTS EVERY MAN TO BE SAVED BUT YOU, BASED ON “SOME” DISTORTIONS OR CONTORTIONS OF THE SCRIPTURE YOU SAY “SOME”
Where The bible said EVERY
You change it to SOME
God bless you brother

· March 1 at 6:16pm

Galdy Desroches
Galdy Desroches UNLIMITED ATONEMENT

· March 1 at 6:19pm

RM Kane
RM Kane Galdy, its very difficult for me to dialog with anyone who is illogical. Reading the bible is not the same as reading a comic book. But that seems to be the way you think you can read it. Paul said “study” to show thyself approved. Studying the Bible takes more work than reading a comic book. But you apparently don’t want to study it because then it won’t mean what you want it to mean.

· March 1 at 6:21pm

Galdy Desroches
Galdy Desroches STUDY THE “BIBLE” NOT EXTRABIBLICAL BOOKS
Joshua 1:8

· March 1 at 6:22pm

Galdy Desroches
Galdy Desroches Prove to me that what i said is wrong
THE ONLY CONDITION TO BE ELECTED IS BY FAITH.
YES OR NO?

· March 1 at 6:25pm

RM Kane
RM Kane Galdy, you’ve been given enough proof in the past several months (from me and others) to publish an encyclopedia, which tells me that you don’t want proof. You apparently want approval of your heretical view of salvation. Why don’t you take some time off from this forum and study this issue by reading scholarly works from reformed authors. Prove them wrong as you read their writings. Start with “The Sovereignty of God” by Arthur Pink… there’s enough solid bible teaching in there to keep you busy for a long time if you seriously care about biblical truth. When you finish that, I’ll be glad to direct you to other scholarly material on soteriology. You can find links to online versions of The Sovereignty of God and other scholarly reformed books here: https://comingintheclouds.org/books-about-protestantism/

· March 1 at 7:15pm

Galdy Desroches
Galdy Desroches That SUGGESTION was a BIG JOKE, right?
Are you telling me to PUT MY BIBLE ON A SIDE and go and read SOME EXTRABIBLICAL BOOKS so i can better understand the WORD OF GOD?
Is that what you are saying brother?In order for me to better UNDERSTAND THE WORD OF GOD you suggest me to read A PINK.I guess sooner or later you probably will recommend dr James White too.Brother let me make something CLEAR FOR YOU.
I personally think that not ONLY YOU but all those who believe in “TULIP” are under the NEGATIVE INFLUENCE of the these scholars.
Instead of being INSPIRED BY THE HS by reading the bible you find yourself reading THE OPINION OF SOME FALLIBLE MEN WHICH IS THE “BIGGEST PROBLEM” OF WHOEVER IS A CALVINIST.
Finally
When God told Joshua in Jos 1:8
This “book” of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.
HE WAS REFERRING US TO THE “BIBLE” NOT TO SOME “CATECHISM” ELABORATED BY FALLIBLE MEN
Stick to the WORD OF GOD so the HS can guide you
Everything else meaning every other book if not READ WITH DISCERNMENT will guide you in one place
“DID GOD REALLY SAY”
Here is your problem brother
SPROUL
MCARTHUR
PIPER
WHITE
A PINK
these guys in their books keep saying
“ALL MEN” does not mean ALL MEN
WHOLE WORLD does not mean WW
If all men means “all kind of men” of course you wont get the message
If the whole world means “some” of course you wont get the message
REMEMBER HOW THE FATHER OF LIE SAID IT
DID GOD REALLY MEAN THIS?
DID GOD REALLY MEAN THAT?
DOES ALL REALLY MEAN ALL?
DOES WHOLE WORLD REALLY MEAN WHOLE WORLD?
If you really want to get the real meaning of these words
Get ANY fifth graders and ask them what does WHOLE WORD mean
And you will be surprise to find out that a fifth grader is SMARTER than
SPROUL
MCARTHUR
PIPER
WHITE
But i am not gonna blame these DOCTORS OF THE LAW WHO PROBABLY HAVE ALL THE DEGREES IN THEOLOGY because Jesus said something interesting when COMPARING THE WISE AND INTELLECTUALS OF THIS WORLD TO CHILDREN
Luke 10:21
In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.

· March 1 at 7:44pm

RM Kane
RM Kane Galdy Desroches, it seems that like David Stevens, you like to play your own version of the “checkmate game” only your version involves bible verse “dumps”. I no longer wish to play your game either. I will continue to post edifying quotes and articles in this group but you and David will have to seek others to play your game, as I am bowing out.

· March 1 at 9:21pm

Galdy Desroches
Galdy Desroches COME ON BROTHER KANE
IT IS NOT THE FIRST TIME YOU HAVE DECIDED TO STOP PLAYING THAT GAME BUT YOU ALWAYS COME BACK. THAT IS THE BEAUTY OF THE GOSPEL. YOU CANNOT LIVE WITHOUT IT
IF YOU LEAVE I AM GONNA MISS YOU BUT UNTIL THEN SEE YOU AT THE NEXT GAME BROTHER

· March 1 at 9:58pm · Edited
David Stevens
David Stevens RM Kane Do you tell lies, sir?

· February 28 at 2:24am

RM Kane
RM Kane David, I replied to Galdy about this. I added your name to the reply so that you will be able to find it easily.

· February 28 at 2:24pm

David Stevens
David Stevens RM Kane As I meditatively read the Scripture, I find myself inspired to live an honest life, inspired to be truthful with my neighbor, inspired to be thankful for His salvation, inspired to believe all things are working together for my good, inspired to love others out of a pure heart fervently, inspired to be loyal to my calling, inspired to be faithful to my family, inspired to administrate the business affairs of my life honestly and with integrity, and I find the Word of God even inspires me to pay my tithe to my place of worship regularly.
With all this, RM, could you find fault with me? Would such an inspiration come from a lie or a devil?

· February 28 at 7:47pm

RM Kane
RM Kane The answer to your question David is found in Galatians 1:8&9:
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

· March 1 at 12:01am

David Stevens
David Stevens So a false doctrine can deliver from sin and inspire love, joy, peace, and holy living? Is Satan divided against himself?

· March 1 at 12:03am

James Sindelar
James Sindelar David, I’m not saying you are not saved but your laundry list of your life could be said from a Mormon. Doctrine is what divides truth from error.

· March 1 at 12:33pm

David Stevens
David Stevens I understand exactly what you’re saying but no sir, ask a Mormon about deliverance from sin and he will tell you, he habitually lies and sins. They listen to worldly music that plays to the lusts of the flesh just the same.
Genuine sanctification of the Spirit will purge us from lying, stealing, and want for worldly music.

· March 1 at 1:14pm

David Stevens
David Stevens James Sindelar I understand exactly what you’re saying but no sir, ask a Mormon about deliverance from sin and he will tell you, he habitually lies and sins. They listen to worldly music that plays to the lusts of the flesh just the same.
Genuine sanctification of the Spirit will purge us from lying, stealing, and want for worldly music.

· March 1 at 7:45pm

James Sindelar
James Sindelar All Christians sin (yet less and less as we grow in maturity) and no one will be perfect this side of heaven so it’s hard to necessarily use your life as a gauge. Because many people by secular means “reform” their horrible ways and become “better people”. I once saw a woman who was into drugs, drinking, sex, rebellion etc… she was a mess and came on a talk show and the whole audience was in awe of her change. She stopped all her old ways and she was changed and reformed. But… she became a Muslim. The point? Although real regenerated change is legitimate, looking at change in ones life ALONE is not legitimate. Correct doctrine (belief) must be accompanied with it or it’s not trustworthy. We must worship in spirit and in TRUTH. It absolutely matters what one believes. So all I’m saying regarding your “lifestyle” is… fine, that’s great, but that’s only a part of the proof. What you believe it critical.

· March 1 at 8:02pm

RM Kane
RM Kane David, Paul when unconverted had a false gospel, yet he was a pharisee of pharisees, blameless as he put it… Philippians 3:6
“Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.” and what did he then say about his wonderful righteous past?
Philippians 3:8
“and do count them but dung”
So perhaps the things that you highly esteem about yourself God counts them as dung, especially if you are attributing your salvation to a decision you made or if you are attributing the maintenance of your salvation to your own efforts.

· March 1 at 12:11am

David Stevens
David Stevens RM, do you tell lies?

· March 1 at 12:14am

RM Kane
RM Kane David Stevens, do you eat corn flakes?

· March 1 at 12:17am

David Stevens
David Stevens I want to know if you tell lies. It’s a simple Yes or No answer.

· March 1 at 12:18am

RM Kane
RM Kane I only lie when absolutely necessary. 🙂

· March 1 at 12:22am

David Stevens
David Stevens If you, RM were filled with the Spirit of truth as you say, how can you utter falsehoods? A fountain cannot bear sweet water and bitter.
I used to be a habitual liar. Since Christ came into my life, I’ve been delivered from that ugly spirit of deceit.
Is this a work of The Spirit or the work of a false doctrine?

· March 1 at 12:24am

RM Kane
RM Kane Have a good night David. I’m not playing any games with you.

· March 1 at 12:24am

David Stevens
David Stevens If you, RM were filled with the Spirit of truth as you say, how can you utter falsehoods? A fountain cannot bear sweet water and bitter.
I used to be a habitual liar. Since Christ came into my life, I’ve been delivered from that ugly spirit of deceit.
Is this a work of The Spirit or the work of a false doctrine?

· March 1 at 12:25am

David Stevens
David Stevens RM, checkmate. I’ll take my beliefs that delivered me from a deceitful heart over your doctrine anytime.

· March 1 at 12:26am

David Stevens
David Stevens It’s not that you won’t play games, it’s that you’re being confronted with the truth that your beliefs are found lacking and only wishful thinking.
Don’t wish me good night. Admit to me and yourself that you’re running and hiding behind your doctrine as Adam hid himself from the voice of the Lord. RM Kane

· March 1 at 12:30am

David Stevens
David Stevens RM Kane I appreciate your honesty in admitting that you lie when it’s absolutely necessary.
That said, cannot the Lord make a way for you to be honest at all times? This would be in compliance with His Word: Ephesians 4:25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
That said, this is why I’m calling your experience in Christ into question. Every tree is known by its fruit.

· March 1 at 7:49pm

RM Kane
RM Kane David, that comment about lying “only when necessary” was uttered by me in the spirit of Proverbs 26:5 –
“Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.”
Because from past experience, I could sense that you were about to start another one of your “checkmate” games, which I was not interested in participating in. You always start out your games with a question (do you or did you)… commit such and such a sin. So the “checkmate” was on you before you even realized it.

· March 1 at 9:15pm

David Stevens
David Stevens It’s hard to imagine accepting counsel concerning spiritual affairs from someone that does not live the life.
RM Kane You claim be saved but you admit you live a life of sin. How can this be? I want to know the life you live. Every tree is known by its fruit. You say you sin. What good then is your doctrine?
As for me, no sir, I do not lie, utter falsehoods, or deceive. Why? I’ve been born again, delivered from lying, and live a life led of the Spirit. This is my demonstration to you that I really am saved. A false teaching could never produce this type of a lifestyle.
So my question for you is: Do you lie? What has your doctrine done for you?

· March 1 at 10:28pm